1927 16H Norton

The 1927 Norton 16H. Nice bike but no match for the 1928 M18 that followed so she had to go. Well, we're not owners anyway, just keepers, looking after them for a while before they move on. More on Paul's blog.

Alec Bennett, 1927 Model CS1 Norton

Sent by Al

"This is a copy of an original photo I have of Alec Bennett after he won the 1927 TT with Stanley Woods to his left. This photo was given to me by my grandfather who was a great Norton fan who used to visit Brookland regularly pre war."

Simon:"That's Walter Moore in the Trilby hat and Jimmy Shaw slightly behind Stanley to the left"

Jeff's 1927 Model 18 Norton

Sent by Jeff is Australia

"Here are some pics of my Norton. As you can see, it's incomplete at this stage."

1927 rear carrier

Sent  by Albert

Attached a drawing of the 1927 Norton Model 18 carrier. It may be useful to someone who is missing this this item. The measurements are off an original 1927 one.

1927 Model 18 Norton

This Norton is for sale at British Only Austria; perhaps not 100% original but the essential bits and pieces seem to be all there and look correct; overall the bike looks good to me.

1927 Model 25 Norton replica

This Norton was sold several years ago by Yesterdays; who knows more about it? The engine is an early unit, note that the cam chest is still split in two at the height of the oilpump. A striking feature is the large sprint-type petrol tank; originally it may have been fitted with a flat tank fitted in between the upper frame tubes. It may have been a racer, note the Sturmey Archer 'box without a kickstart.

Not that easy to explain is the left-hand crankcase half marked 79x120 which would identify the engine as a 588cc unit; did Norton ever make 588cc versions of the Model 25? Further, M25s usually had a framelug carrying the magneto support bracket that wraps fully around the frametube; this one looks like the Model 18 type to me.

A very nice bike that looks quite a bit like this 1926 TT racer; is it an original or was it pieced together from parts laying around; and does it matter?

Simon: "Almost certainly built up by Stefan Knittell several years ago.  The tanks are replica 1926 TT pannier tanks" 

Roger: "It has the wrong oil tank mounts, for the M25 they should be brazed rather than clamped to the downtube. Pat Driscoll's 1925 TT 588cc engine had the integral oil pump"

Paul's 1927 Model 19 Norton

Sent by Paul in Australia

"This Norton left the works on the 3 October 1927. It is a genuine model 19, with the 588 stamped on the frame, but unfortunately it does not have the original engine. The current engine has a later barrel, but it does have the genuine model 19 cylinder head which was recently refurbished. The bike left the works with 26 x 3.25 WO tyres. It currently has a 21" WM1 on the front and 19" WM2 on the rear. The bike left the works with a B and B carb which it doesn't now have, and  B and B twist grip throttle, which it does have. Front forks were DTT27s. Overall I am very pleased with the bike and very lucky.  Previous owners have been meticulous in their restoration and care. I have had all the chrome taken off as I love nickel."

Simon:" 26 x 3.25 tyres is 3.25 x 19 in today's speak!  WO is Wired-On as opposed to Beaded Edge.

DTT27 are Druid forks but not the ones on it now - which are standard HRT Druids.  DTT27 type was the TT Druid with side bracing struts - very few and far between even then.  The Model 19 as catalogued had standard HRT Druids but many were shipped out with Webbs.

The cylinder barrel may be 1930 but it has the push rod return spring bracket in place which makes it more likely to be a bit earlier.  However plenty of 1930 588 barrels had the push rod return spring boss in place but unmachined to take the bracket. The open valve gear Model 19 cylinder head looks the same as the Model 18 version  - but isn't.  It used deeper recesses for the cylinder head sleeve nuts and longer sleeve nuts.  Valve sizes etc were the same.  No one has yet come up with a reason for this although one suggestion was that, with  the tall barrel and lack of clearance under the top tube, it would aid head removal for the week-end decoke/valve grind with which everyone seemed obsessed pre-war!  This would hold good if the head studs themselves were a little shorter and I have no evidence that they were so remain unconvinced!

While chrome began to be publicised in 1924 it did not become widely used until 1930 and in 1927 Nickel would undoubtedly have been used by Nortons and everyone else for that matter.  Incidentally rocker standards and rockers would not have been plated originally.

More of LPD1

The photo on top depicts Chris Driscoll (on the left), son of Pat Driscoll and Roger, the current owner of LPD1 (photo by Martin). The other photographs were made last April at Brooklands and show LPD1 in it's latest reincarnation. Read all about LPD1 in Roger's book.

Viktor's 1927 Model 18 Norton

Viktor (above) got this Model 18 from his very good friend Vratislav (below, on the right) but it took him 10 years to persuade his friend to part with the Norton's remains! He had to help him out reproducing quite a few parts for Vratislav's other bikes before he could carry the Norton project home.

Viktor has now dismantled the engine and surprisingly, it looks in quite good shape still. The head is marked 29-1-27 and the engine number is 35036 which confirms 1927.

Rebuilding the frame will be the biggest challenge but Viktor is making progress, see this earlier blog entry for more info.

The Motorcyclist Review

From "The Motorcyclist Review, August 1927". Sent by Simon.

The Motorcyclist Review was a monthly paper which ran from about 1925 to 1930. There is a full set of them at the British Newpaper Library in North London, where many other periodicals of interest can also be viewed - free! The CS1 on which Stanley was 'snapped' after his Dutch TT win carries the registration number OP8644 which is the number of the CS1 featured in the Motor Cycling road test of 9th November '27 and the 'Racer in the Rough' article from the Motor Cycle of 17th November '27.

Bert's c1927 Model 16H Norton

Bert bought his wife a 16H. It's a circa 1927 model that has been in a Danish museum for years.

1927 Model 25 Norton

This Model 25 was photographed by Martin at the famous Hesket Newmarket rally in Cumbria some years ago. It was supplied in May 1927 to a chap in London and from new had the Binks carburettor and standard CS gearbox. The present crankcases have no number - perhaps the result of a blow-up at some time. Note the split timing chest, heavy duty TT Webbs and Enfield front brake. The short brake arm on the rear brake lever spindle is upside down. The present owner informed us that when he and his father found it, it was in a hen house and covered in chicken shit!!...and there is that little fellow again on the front mudguard!

Joe Craig on the CS1 - Moore variety

By Simon

Various authors of Norton books and articles in recent years have remarked on the lack of success of the works CS1s in '28 and '29 compared to 1927. Vague references have been made to cylinder head problems and one chap even went so far as to suggest Walter Moore deliberately engineered the difficulties so that he could justify his departure to NSU in 1929 (a highly fanciful notion to which I do not subscribe!). It should be stressed that these problems are not associated with production versions of the Moore CS1, which were generally accepted as being fit for the purpose for which they were sold. So where did these stories start? Seemingly with none other than Joe Craig!

At the invitation of journalist, former TT winner and publisher of the TT Special Geoff Davison, Joe contributed an article to Davison's 1948 anthology 'The TT Races - behind the scenes.' In it - after several pages of introductory woffle - we come to the nub of the matter. As Joe put it, '...the main troubles of the engines of 1928 and 1929 emanated from a marked tendency of the cylinder head and piston to attain a temperature out of all proportion with the power output...' In the Isle of Man, if one got as far as Ramsey in one piece, climbing the Mountain at high revs in second gear would as often as not result in piston seizure. It seems that Moore's efforts to solve the problem were centred on the piston, which was given increased clearances but to no avail. In Joe's view it was just getting far too hot and expanding accordingly. The source of the problem was poor scavenging and combustion. What apparently happened, after the 1927 season, was an extensive re-design of the head and it seems that those responsible (no names are given!) had not realised the critical influence on performance of the inlet port shape. Norton's engineers, in an effort to follow the valve spring manufacturers' recommendations for improved reliability by using longer springs, had simply altered the head casting, making that section which supports the springs protrude rather more into the ports than was desirable for a racing engine.

On his return to Nortons in the late summer of 1929, Craig and Carroll had a good look at the problem and having identified it, went back to the original 1927 port shape - and one assumes - valve spring length. The valve springs were given a slightly easier life by a rather gentler cam and the result was there for all to see - second and third places in the 1929 Ulster Grand Prix, run at a higher speed than ever before. The lessons learned were applied to the Carroll engines which followed in 1930 and the rest, as they say, is history.......

I have never seen one of the original 1927 works CS1 heads despite years of asking round and of course, the problem is that present owners of such heads might not realise what they had unless they had amassed enough CS1 heads to notice a difference. I even checked the CS1 engine in the Science Museum in London in the forlorn hope that it might have been one of the original type but no luck there either: it seems to be a standard production unit. So if there is any CS1 owner out there who thinks he (or she) has a different cylinder head to the usual type, let's be hearing from you!

(postscript: There are few photos of the '27 works engines which differed from the production versions in a few respects - quite apart from the cylinder heads. The timing cover was a different shape and was in two pieces rather than a single casting, the lower part covering the oil pump was as on the '26 TT OHV engines. The technical artist Francis Simpson did two drawings of the TT engine which appeared in the TT Notes and News (the Motor Cycle, June 30th 1927), above)

1927 Model 25 Norton

By Simon

Here's a catalogue illustration of the Model 25 used for publicity purposes in 1927 by the factory. This shows evidence of a clever man with an airbrush (or whatever technique was used at the time) and there seem to be a few variations from the state in which most of them were sent out. The carb. seems to be a TT Amac, and the so-called pneumatic footrests are in evidence. Also the rear wheel is a 'non-detatchable' brake drum type.... interesting, none the less.

Roger: "The technique used in this illustration is most interesting. The image is a photograph using the technique of a (sometimes grubby) white sheet as the background which is agitated so that its movement removes any blemishes and creases during the relatively long exposure (like in this photo). What is unusual about this picture is that it is taken in a studio with frontal illumination on both sides. The shadows form a cross behind the machine whereas outside pictures taken around midday give a direct overhead light with shadow underneath.

Retouching and masking was done on the negative, not difficult as the pictures were taken on a large format plate camera - hence the small aperture for good depth of field and crispness of the image. Masking was done with a white masking fluid which could be washed off . There is a lovely image of George Tucker on a kneeler sidecar outfit in the mid 20s which was published in Motor Cycle. Years later a journalist removed the background mask to reveal that the location was the Little Paddock sheds at Brooklands and the detail of the cars in the background was stunning."

A letter by Stanley Woods

In an appealing tale about the first CS1 Norton , Walter Moore claims that his OHC design was first used at the Isle of Man TT circuit in 1927 when the engine had never been tested before. Moore had rushed two fresh CS1 motors to the island, hiring a tugboat to get himself there overnight. Once landed, he faced the challenge of convincing the team mechanic and rider to fit and race the new power plant. By the end of the next day, the 17th of June 1927, the CS1 and Alec Bennett had won the Senior TT by over eight minutes.

While Walter Moore claimed to have rushed the CS1 engines straight from the workshop to the TT, Stanley Woods has another story to tell. Woods was known for his sharpness and vitality in later life, making his comments more than credible.

This contribution is by Simon: ”In his letter (transcript provided below) Woods mentions going to Stuttgart for an event in May 1927 which rather knocks on the head the Walter Moore tale about taking a couple of untried engines over to the IoM for the 1927 TT in a hired boat. He also says he was loaned the production CS1 initially issued to Jimmy Guthrie and by chance I have a rather poor print of what is perhaps this very machine, with Stanley on board, at the '31 Scott Trial to which he refers. The registration of the bike is KS3900 and this was issued in the Roxburgh area - just a few miles from Guthrie's home town of Hawick. Note this shot shows quite well that the bike is fitted with the special 7 inch front brake used on the Works racing machines rather than the 8" Enfield type used on the production versions of the CS1. Cheers S”

15.9.86

Dear Mr Adams

Thank you for your order – your CS1 picture and your chatty letter.

As you remark, I had quite a lot to do with the CS1! I worked on the assembly of the first race model – what a last minute rush the final assembly was! Completed just after 1 o’clock on a Thursday in May 1927 – out into the street at the back of the Norton factory – near the centre of Birmingham – a push start and full throttle in 1st gear – into 2nd – brakes – turn around and back to the factory rear entrance where a lorry was waiting. Up into the lorry, where a mechanic was waiting to drain off the fuel as we raced to the central rail station to catch the 2 o’clock train for London and Harwich for the night boat from Harwich to the Hook of Holland – then a full day by rail to Stuttgart in S. Germany for its first race!

Practice Saturday morning and the race on Sunday – I led easily until I broke a gudgeon pin (USA wrist pin?)! Back to the factory for a quick modification and then the CS1 led the field for the 1927 Season.

At the London Motorcycle Show in November 1927 the first production model was on show. Jimmy Guthrie was signed up for the 1928 team and Nortons sent him that machine so “that he could learn to ride a Norton!”

September 1928 the Company replaced my ‘hack’ “Model 18” with that bike and I used it in almost all types of event until I left the Company at the end of the Season 1933.

Although she was not designed for trials – a ground clearance of about 3 ½ inches – I was most successful and was Trials Champion of Ireland three years – local road races, sand races and cross-country events solo and sidecar – sometimes with a high compression piston and Alcohol fuel – what a bike! And never let me down. I think that her best performance was fastest time in the famous (notorious!) Scott Trial in 1931 – that was about 50/60 miles over the open Yorkshire Moors – I could go on for pages! They don’t make bikes like that today! Thanks again for your support.

Sincerely yours

Stanley Woods

PS Bikes like that! The 500cc Velocette that I rode in the 1979 Classic Lap (“Geriatric TT”) and also in 1980 – 81 – 82 and 83 was the bike I raced in the 1937, 8 and 9 Senior TT – Raced after the war and is still good for 125 MPH - and happy at that. SW