1925 Model 18 - For sale

It's that 1925 M18 again... For sale via this link; asking price 19.500 euro.

1925 Model 18 Norton

Sent by Peter in Canada

This lady on board the 1925 Model 18 Norton is my late mother in law (who was born 100 years ago, on the 17th of January). The name of the dog is not known but it looks like a real ankle biter to me! We still can't figure out exactly when the pics were taken but suspect that it was the early 1930s.

This picture shows Peter's late father in law on the Model 18. The Norton may have been a few years old when the pictures were taken. Electric lights and racy rear mudguard stays had been fitted, the front stand has been removed and what happened to the rear stand? Note the clip on his trouser's legs.

Bennett's 1925 TT Norton again

Another picture of Alec Bennett on his 1925 TT Norton.

Bert Denly on a c1925 Model 18 Norton

Bert at Brooklands again; at first glance the same Norton as this one, but as the magneto support lug is at another position it's probably a different motorcycle. That could be O'Donovan behind him in the light suit though he did not usually wear a cardboard pass as his BMCRC badge would have been sufficient to gain him entry.

Ko's 1925 Model 16H Norton

Another Norton that used to belong to Ko.

Luggage racks

An email from Geoff

I obtained an old and original rack for my 1925 Big Four...trouble is it doesnt fit! I think it is from a 16H but I don't know what year bike the rack came off. The arms on this rack are too close together and too short where they bolt onto the frame for my Big Four so I reckon on the Big Four rack the arms are slightly longer and angle slightly outwards at about 15 to 20 degrees so as to fit onto the studs on the outside of the rear downtubes which must be wider apart on the Big Four than the 16H. Another reason it doesnt fit could be that pre-1925 model racks have a different part number to 1925 onward models. If anyone can send me the dimensions of a 1925 to 1927 Big Four rack from the fixing bolt holes just above the spindle vertically to the topside of the platform where the luggage fixes and the length of the front arms I would be very grateful!

Bennett's 1925 TT Norton again

By Roger

I have found a picture (above) of Bennett and his Norton at the end of the 1925 TT which shows the braced Webbs that he used in the race. I wanted to confirm that he did use the braced ones as I had read elsewhere that they were so still that they caused frame breakages on the sidecar outfits. I am most interested in the design as the brace appears to be in line with the fork's front tube rather than midway between as on the Druids. I think that the 1925 TT was the first time that braced Webbs were used and this may also be true for the Druids because of comments in The Motor Cycle; developments tended to be "shared".

Bennett's 1925 TT Norton again

By Roger

The attached pictures are of interest in the discussion about the 1925 Bennett TT Norton as the main picture shows it (above, on the right, number 11) as part of a group photograph. The registration number can be seen as can the braced Webb forks. Interestingly all of the sidecar outfits were equipped with braced forks but these were all side sprung Druids (see second illustration below). Both Bennett and Woods won TT races on Nortons which had been supplied by the works but I believe that their status was different to the exclusive team contracts that we know today. Bennett had won the previous year so was likely to have been given the machine which is why he registered it through his dealership. He is likely to have received a retainer for the ride together with a bonus for finishing. Certainly a couple of years later he offered to ride a Velocette in the Junior on the basis of a handsome bonus if he won which he did easily. The reason for this approach was that, like the other riders, he was contracted to suppliers (tyres, chains, oil, fuel, magnetos, plugs and so on) which might conflict with the standard Norton supplier. In this way he would benefit from both the Norton and all of the other bonuses.

The team picture is interesting as Mick Woollett in his book disparagingly describes it as the Norton camp and hangers-on as he only identified Walter Moore, Joe Craig, George Tucker and Alec Bennett. I believe it is a picture of the whole Norton team in both the Senior and Sidecar races. The ones I can identify are from the left: Pat Driscoll, Tommy Simister, Bert Taylor (second in Sidecar race), ???, George Grinton (third in Sidecar race), Joe Craig, Walter Moore (Team Manager), Ralph Crauford, ???, Joaquim Vidal, George Tucker, ???, Cliff Juggins (Pat's "hanger-on"), ???, Alec Bennett, ???.

The other riders were: Ignacio Macaya, Billy McVitty, JA Stuart and Ernie Searle and the hangers-on:
G Hammond (George Tucker's passenger), CR Hurst (Bert Taylor's passenger), AW Kinrade (George Grinton's passenger). Jimmie Simpson finished fifth in the Sidecar race on a 350 AJS with George Rowley as his passenger!

1925 Model 18 Norton

From the September 2010 issue of the Dutch VMC magazine

This photo most probably shows mr A. Veelenturf from Bodengraven in the Netherlands on his 1925 Model 18 (the registration H-44233 was issued in May 1925). The machine is fitted with electric lights and the headlamp may be Bosch. The carburettor is rather special for a road going machine as it is a Binks Mousetrap.

Roger: "The carburettor looks identical to the Binks three jet Mousetrap on a Zenith at Brooklands. The front part looks like the conventional two jet Binks with with addition of the variable venturi flap at the rear controlled by the second cable (both cables can be seen in the picture). The two jet version is indistinguishable from the three jet one as the other components are the same but the internal jet block has an extra hole for the third jet. The two/three jet Mousetrap was a vast improvement over the single jet version which supplied a rich mixture at anything less than full throttle - acceptable for dope but much less so for petrol. I suspect that best results would be obtained from the three jet version by leaving the venturi flap wide open. In this way it would function as a normal three jet carb and the flat could be closed for enrichment for hills."

Simon: "Several OHV Nortons are shown in the despatch books as being fitted with the Mousetrap during the mid twenties and although the specific version is not mentioned it is reasonable to assume the current type at the time would have been fitted.  'Several' is perhaps an overstatement - only four are shown up to Autumn 1924. The three jet version of the Mousetrap came in in 1926 so the one fitted to this 1925 Model 18 may have been the earlier type or, if fitted after delivery, one of the later type. Below is an extract from the 1925 Lucas instructions and the one on the bike looks similar althought the advance and retard is on the back rather than the front (ie tight wire advance - the usual Lucas arrangement at the time) and the arm holding on the contact breaker cover is above rather than below."

Roger: "The picture I have of a 1925 Lucas magdyno (below) looks rather different. The Maglita is much squarer and I also have found a picture of the CAV and none of them look like the one on the machine. So perhaps it is a Bosch system."

For sale: c1925 Norton Model 18

From George Cohen's website:

George: "Circa 1925 Flat Tank Model 18. A very nice Flat Tank Norton. Taxed and tested and a solid runner. 19 inch wheels and Dell’Orto carb are the only significant deviations from factory spec. Machine is currently in south Wales. £17,000"

JdK: a nice flat tank Norton! Though one could have a lengthy discussion about which deviations from factory spec are significant or not.

Geoff's 1925 Big Four Norton

An email from Geoff in the UK: "I bought this Big Four in bits. It was in a thousand pieces as the previous owner started the restoration. These pics were given to me with the bike. I have now loosely assembled it. We built the engine and gearbox and fitted it with the clutch and primary chain etc. and it runs. 

I live inside the M25 Motorway north east of London. Is there anyone who might be able to supply a valenced front mudguard or perhaps someone within say about 150 kilometers of me who has an original Big Four that I could speak to and perhaps get a chance to make cardboard patterns of the front guard valences?"

Please contact John and I'll forward your contact details.

The ??? Bennett bike!

By Simon

I see the new entry about the 1925 (???) TT Norton - along with the Classic Motor Cycle article and associated letters.

While the re-build was of high quality I have to say that the result bears only a superficial resemblance to the original. A photo of one of the works bikes from 1925 has been published before on the blog but here (above) it is again for easy reference. Also, here (below) is a rather poor photo of Bennett in the paddock at the TT showing the bike with practise number plates and forks as fitted to the works machines. Why the bike was fitted with braced forks for the TT itself is anybody's guess. Just for interest, a copy of the original registration details of the bike is also attached: these are unusual in that it was registered by Bennett himself in Southampton rather than by the works in Birmingham.

One does not need to know much about Vintage Nortons to see that there are many differences between the 'works' photo and the bike now purporting to be the Bennett machine.

The main difference relates to the frame - that used in the re-build looks to me to be 1928 and the caption to the photo in the CMC article stating that the steering damper lug on the top tube of the frame had been added by a previous restorer is surely a very feeble excuse. Further, the '25 frames still retained the rather archaic system of mounting footrests, brake pedal - and oil pump pedal - on the short tube protruding downwards from the gear-box lug. This tube and associated hardware is nowhere to be seen on the re-build.

Other differences between 'then' and 'now' seem to be - forks and front wheel: OK, so braced Webbs are very thin on the ground but the ones used look to be standard 1925-ish Webbs and not the type used on the works bikes which, exceptionally, have the brake cable stop on the front of the forks to suit the Horton hub brake-arm. The front hub looks to be standard for the period and not the Horton type. Standard fuel and oil tanks are now fitted and the supplementary chain oiler tank is missing. The saddle is of the wrong type. The cylinder head is fitted with the 1929 type of exhaust valve lifter mechanism - a small point, agreed!

All in all, the only parts of the bike which I believe to be genuine are the crankcases!

Bennett's 1925 TT Norton ?

From "The Classic Motorcycle, July 1991, pp 53-57''. Sent by Hans. Click the images for a full-page version. Refer to this blog entry for more info on this bike.

...and Simon's comments. From "The Classic Motorcycle, August 1991, p 26". More comments in this blog entry.

Reece's c1925 Model 18 Norton

By Reece

About 12 or so years ago I bought an ever so slightly modified flat tank Norton. The previous owner was very short and modified it to suit him; have a really good look at the modifications including the rocker oil “troffs”! The fuel tank is an original that has been messed with, funny what people will do. Believe it or not, this bike started, ran and was rideable (if you were keen enough) when I bought it. It ran so quietly, amazing…Below as it is now.

Malcolm's 1925 Model 16H Norton

An email from Bruce in the US:

"I have attached a photo of my grandfather, Malcolm Freeborough, on his Norton. The back of the picture is inscribed with his name and the comment "mid 1920's". I believe Malcolm was born, and lived in Kingston-upon-Hull at the time the photo was taken, perhaps by his future wife (they were married in 1929). By early 1930s Malcolm was living in Belgium as a Works Manager for his firm. I am hoping that by identifying the bike and the license plate number I can date the picture a little more accurately. The bike probably ended up in Belgium. Malcolm stopped riding after waking up on the side of the road one evening on his way home from work. He commented to me that with a wife and child, he felt he ought to consider less risky transportation. Kind regards, Bruce Glanville."


The registration plate would have been issued by the Kingston-upon-Hull County Borough Council somewhere between January 1925 and January 1930. The Norton is a 1925 Model 16H with a full set of electric lights; note the switch below the saddle. There is a Cowey horn mounted on the top frame rails. Refer to this blog entry for the oilpump type.

John's c1925 Model18 Norton

Not a very clear picture, showing a mr John Jempson on his c1925 Model 18.

Barbara and Laurie's 1925 Model 18 Norton

This is Barbara on Laurie's 1925 Model 18 Norton. The OM2693 registration was issued between November 1924 and September 1925 by the Birmingham County Borough Council. The motorcycle looks brand new though the passenger footrests and saddle are very similar to those fitted to their 16H.

The photographs were sent by Barbara's daughter Judith Taylor. The photo below depicts Judith in 1954 with her Vespa in Geneva; read the whole story by following this link.

1925 Works Norton

By Simon

Further to the previous blog entry: I have seen this photo before (there is a copy of it in a war-time issue of Motor Cycle/Cycling) and it shows a 1925 Works Norton as used by Bennett, Shaw, Craig and others at the time.

The prints above show a slightly retouched 1925 works bike and the other - rather less doctored - the 1926 version. Both seem to have been used for publicity purposes by Nortons at the time. Note the '25 machine has a non-standard front brake and forks, while the '26 machine is extremely similar to Woods' winning bike (but not it!).

I actually owned one of the 1925 engines during my mis-spent late youth (my wife will tell you I am still in it!). It was installed in a 1928 frame and was, after a long spell in the Murray Motor Museum in the IOM, nicely rebuilt about twenty years back and lavishly described in the Classic Motorcycle as 'Bennett's 1925 TT Winner.' The only parts which came from Bennett's machine are the crankcase and oil pump. These parts literally seem to be all that is left of the 1925 Works bikes of which several were built and all listed in the records. 

The records show the 500s as simply OHV. No less than 18 machines were put together for the TT and sidecar TT, some of which are shown as spare bikes. There is little detail by way of the specification. All but one machine were fitted with B and B carbs. The exception was the solo on loan to the Spanish rider Macaya which was fitted with an Amac. All were fitted with C.A.V magnetos. New pattern brakes and oil (pump) pedal are also mentioned. The new pattern brakes refer - I suspect - to the different front brake. There are no comments about the dry sump system. 

Incidentally, I still have the very standard head, and the sole racing cam that was still in it (marked TTG). The flywheels in it when I had it were modified ES2 steel ones. The barrel was destroyed in a con rod fracture incident at Brands Hatch....but as usual, I am wandering from the point.

I would not describe the 1925 Works OHV Nortons as Model 18s due to the incorporation of the then new dry sump system but I guess, equally, they were not yet Model 25s. No one has yet been able to tell me if the flywheels were steel in these engines or cast iron: by the time of the 1926 TT they were certainly steel and the dry sump arrangement changed and simplified. However, the mainshafts of the '26 works engines were 1 inch whereas the 1925 versions were still 22mm. When Nortons produced the Model 25 for the 1927 season it, too, had steel wheels but, as is so often the case, there were slight cost cutting changes in that the mainshafts reverted to 22mm and racing cams were not fitted as standard. Further, the majority of the Model 25s sold were fitted with standard CS gearboxes rather than no kick-start racing LS boxes. A bit like a twenties version of the Gold Star.... 

The 1925 Works bikes had a footrest and brake pedal set up like the standard Model 18s of the day - the lot mounted on a short vertical tube located below and to the front of the gearbox lug. If you dropped the plot onto a footrest, the whole lot could twist round and jam the clutch.... By 1926, the Works bikes had a different and more user friendly set-up, the footrests and pedal being mounted on a supplementary pair of plates - see the picture above, which is not in fact a very good sketch. The pedal itself was changed and was virtually the same as that used later on the '29/30 Model 18s/16Hs etc although with a different length spindle. Model 25s also seem to have been fitted with this pedal rather than the standard type in use in 1927.

The outfit Driscoll was loaned for the '25 sidecar TT was a four speeder so bore very little resemblance to the three speed TT bikes. It did of course have a 588 dry sump engine in it, with which Driscoll was singularly dis-satisfied at the time - hence fitting one of his own Brooklands engines for the event itself. The records show the machine loaned to Driscoll simply as 588 OHV.

1925 Norton racer

This is Jimmy Shaw at the 1925 Ulster Grand Prix on his OHV Norton; note the strange combination of an early dry-sump lubrication and the cable-operated handpump, just visible above his knee. The (rather poor) photo below shows Jimmy on the same motorcycle leading Alec Bennett on a similar Norton. Of particular interest to me, note the underside of the petrol tanks! This looks very similar to the extension as fitted to the tank of my 1927 racer project.

Roger's comments: "This picture is quite a find. The (dry sump) Model 25 was the production version of the 1926 TT winning machine so I don't think that you can call the Norton in the picture a Model 25. The Model 25 also had a different arrangement for footrest and rear brake mounting. The real significance is that the picture shows one of the "Model 18/19s" prepared for the 1925 TT.

Pat Driscoll was loaned one of the 588cc versions by the works for the sidecar race. He subsequently bought it and converted it to the wet sump system that he favoured. Looking at the pictures of his outfit and the Norton team at the TT I can't see the extension to the tank. The angles make it difficult to be absolutely sure in all cases but one of Pat's outfit shows no sign of it. This means that it was likely to have been fitted for the Ulster as a special tank making it more likely that they would have remained in Northern Ireland hence the Jimmy Shaw connection with at least one part of your 1927 flat tank Norton."

Piet's 1925 Model 18 Norton

Piet van Wijngaarden, winner of the first Dutch TT in Assen, 11th of July 1925. His motorcycle is a Norton Model 18. Note the raised handlebars, magdyno and cushion!

Simon: "I expect you may have noticed - it is fitted with a Binks Mouse trap carburettor. A few mid twenties Model 18s are listed in the records as being fitted with these instead of the more usual B and B."